Join Leela for a conversation with Holly Hagerman, founder at AmptUp.com, an online marketplace to connect venues and musicians through a lens of equity, fair pay and contract usage. Holly shares stories about the founding of the company and talks about AmptUp’s mission-based objectives of making it easier for music and venues to make a living; increasing equity, both in pay and representation, for people of color, women, and LGBTQ+ commuities; and making any city a Music City. All while using booking fees to create a steady stream of grants.
Links!
AmtUp website: https://www.amptup.com/
Find AmptUp on Instagram and Facebook.
Find NIVA (the National Independent Venue Association): https://www.nivassoc.org/
and information about the Save Our Stages Act: https://www.saveourstages.com/
Transcript
Hi everyone and welcome to Power Pivot, where we
Leela Sinha:talk about power, community, leadership, and ethics. I'm your
Leela Sinha:host, Leela Sinha. Today I am so pleased to have Holly Hagerman
Leela Sinha:here with me. She is the founder of AmptUp.com, an online
Leela Sinha:marketplace that connects musicians and venues in ways
Leela Sinha:that cut booking time in half, and is dedicated to
Leela Sinha:transparency, equity and fair pay. So you can see why I was
Leela Sinha:interested in having her on. She is a Texas native and a two-time
Leela Sinha:founder. Her first company was an award-winning B Corp
Leela Sinha:certified boutique marketing agency serving socially
Leela Sinha:conscious and environmentally friendly businesses. So she's
Leela Sinha:been at this ethics thing a while. At AmptUp, together with
Leela Sinha:her co-founder, Frederic Rouault, a musician and venue
Leela Sinha:production professional, she brings digital marketing
Leela Sinha:know-how ,insider industry knowledge, and, most
Leela Sinha:importantly, passion to her work. Her goal is not just to
Leela Sinha:reopen live music, but to reconstruct and democratize it.
Leela Sinha:Welcome, Holly, thank you so much for being here.
Holly Hargerman:Thank you so much for having me. I'm really
Holly Hargerman:delighted.
Leela Sinha:I am so excited for our conversation, I was telling
Leela Sinha:my assistant earlier that you've got this incredible business
Leela Sinha:plan that you're just you're, you're fixing such an important
Leela Sinha:problem. And I'm I'm just I'm delighted to begin to dig into
Leela Sinha:it with you. So. So let's start with your own description of
Leela Sinha:what your business does, because I want people to have context
Leela Sinha:for when we start talking about why you're doing it.
Leela Sinha:than we understand theoretical explanations: I'm a musician and
Leela Sinha:I want to use your service, how does it work?
Leela Sinha:create your profile, and then, well, on a lot of musician
Leela Sinha:websites, and there are plenty of them out there, you then just
Leela Sinha:sit and wait, you build a profile and you sit and wait
Leela Sinha:until you're found. On AmptUp, you don't have to do that. This
Leela Sinha:is actually a tool that allows you to streamline your booking
Leela Sinha:from the musician's side, allowing them to build their
Leela Sinha:career. So you can create that profile. And then you can
Leela Sinha:immediately jump into our venue search and tour routing tool to
Leela Sinha:either do a local search of venues or to do searches for
Leela Sinha:venues in other locations that you want to tour to. So you can
Leela Sinha:put points on a map, and you can receive 1000s of contacts for
Leela Sinha:venues in those locations. Right now, we're in Texas, Louisiana,
Leela Sinha:Arkansas, Tennessee, and Oregon and Washington. And so we have a
Leela Sinha:contact database that's free, it's public, our goal is to have
Leela Sinha:the world's largest free public database of contact information
Leela Sinha:so that musicians can more easily route their tours. So
Leela Sinha:they put points on a map, they get all of that contact
Leela Sinha:information back based on the filters they put in for the
Leela Sinha:venues they want to play in that will fit their audience, and
Leela Sinha:they start pitching. And even if the venues are not on our
Leela Sinha:platform, because we're just starting out. So just in the
Leela Sinha:last couple of weeks have we started even communicating with
Leela Sinha:the venues and trying to get them to join our platform. But
Leela Sinha:we've designed this so that musicians don't have to wait. We
Leela Sinha:have an enormous database, the most robust for our areas so
Leela Sinha:far, so that they can start pitching exactly as they
Leela Sinha:normally would via email via phone. Because they're going to
Leela Sinha:get all of that contact information and can broker those
Leela Sinha:deals directly themselves. And if they would like they can then
Leela Sinha:send them their booking link and say booked me on AmptUp. They'll
Leela Sinha:get fast digital payments immediately after the show, and
Leela Sinha:they'll get a contract every time. They'll get all of the
Leela Sinha:details. The advanced details of the show, the backline of the
Leela Sinha:venue, all in their contract for easy viewing.
Leela Sinha:Okay, so, in short, if I'm a musician, I can go into
Leela Sinha:AmptUp.com, I can put in where I am or where I'm expecting to be.
Leela Sinha:And I will get contact information for venues in those
Leela Sinha:places. And then I can do my regular routine, just pitch them
Leela Sinha:directly. And then if they say, Yes, I have the option, I don't
Leela Sinha:have to, but I have the option of using your service to get the
Leela Sinha:contract, to get the payment, to do the booking. And then you
Leela Sinha:streamline that process for me.
Holly Hargerman:You got it. You nailed it.
Leela Sinha:Awesome. Awesome. I am not a performing musician,
Leela Sinha:myself. But you know that that old adage, don't date the
Leela Sinha:drummer, I didn't get the drummer, but I did date the
Leela Sinha:singer-songwriter for a while, so I have some sense of what
Leela Sinha:that might be like. And from a venue's perspective, like, Okay,
Leela Sinha:I'm a venue owner, and I have some empty spots. What can I do?
Holly Hargerman:So similar to the musicians, there's really
Holly Hargerman:two sides to this platform for both sides. One is the
Holly Hargerman:discovery. So they can actually go on there and find musicians,
Holly Hargerman:right on our homepage, I can do that. And we have some really
Holly Hargerman:unique filters that don't exist anywhere else in the world. For
Holly Hargerman:example, because the musician has just gone in and put the
Holly Hargerman:points on the map of where they wanted to go. And then receive
Holly Hargerman:those venue contacts back, the venue can actually then search
Holly Hargerman:that through the back end, and find all the musicians that are
Holly Hargerman:going to be touring in their area. So they can search local,
Holly Hargerman:they can search touring nearby, they can also search in a way
Holly Hargerman:that they can infuse a little bit more diversity. If the
Holly Hargerman:musician self-identifies by certain historically
Holly Hargerman:marginalized communities, they can also search by independent
Holly Hargerman:or agent-represented for the representation. So they can do
Holly Hargerman:all of these different searches, find the musicians listen to
Holly Hargerman:their music, and see all of the information, who's in their
Holly Hargerman:band, watch videos on how they perform live, and make a
Holly Hargerman:decision. So that's the discovery element. But like the
Holly Hargerman:musicians, there's this whole streamlining side of things
Holly Hargerman:where there's a contract, every time, the payments are handled
Holly Hargerman:digitally, the W-9s are handled by our system, you don't ever
Holly Hargerman:have to look at them again. And so it's very organized and easy.
Holly Hargerman:So if they choose to not discover musicians on our
Holly Hargerman:platform, they can allow musicians to pitch them by
Holly Hargerman:putting their profile link on their website and say, pitch us
Holly Hargerman:through AmptUp. And they can organize all of their pitches
Holly Hargerman:through there as well.
Leela Sinha:Wow. I don't know about owning a venue. But I know
Leela Sinha:that if I were, if such a tool existed for hiring contractors
Leela Sinha:for my business, I'd be all over it. So this is a really kind of
Leela Sinha:innovative approach, isn't it? Do you have a lot of
Leela Sinha:competition? So Holly Hargerman: So it's a
Leela Sinha:response to that, in one sense, you could say yes, there's tons
Leela Sinha:of competition. I mean, you know, you just can't walk five
Leela Sinha:steps without tripping over another musician-oriented
Leela Sinha:website. The problem is, or maybe the benefit is, that none
Leela Sinha:of them do even half of the things that we do. I actually
Leela Sinha:created just for my team in the last month, I can't believe it
Leela Sinha:took me so long, but I created one of those competitor charts.
Leela Sinha:And I marked down all of the things that we do, and then all
Leela Sinha:the things that competitors do and in a chart, and it's just
Leela Sinha:this sea of red x's, there's only like, in fact, our greatest
Leela Sinha:competitors is Google, Gmail, and G calendar, those are our
Leela Sinha:greatest competitors. Because they do those two things very
Leela Sinha:well. And that's really one of the biggest jobs of booking. But
Leela Sinha:it's very hard to find any other website that will allow you to
Leela Sinha:actually broker a deal online that allow you to actually get
Leela Sinha:paid online, they really mimic the old standards of you know,
Leela Sinha:the the grind and showing up and get getting paid in cash and
Leela Sinha:waiting until 2am and talking to the bar manager after
Leela Sinha:everybody's left to get your money or, you know, coming back
Leela Sinha:driving across town to get your check. So I would say that it is
Leela Sinha:very difficult for us to find a direct competitor. But there are
Leela Sinha:a few. Gig Salad, for example, does help you find musicians,
Leela Sinha:but they don't allow professionals, industry
Leela Sinha:professionals, to really broker a deal. So for example, you
Leela Sinha:can't be paid based on ticket sales. And I'm not sure that you
Leela Sinha:can even be paid online all of the time. It's not a requirement
Leela Sinha:there, you can get paid in cash. And they don't have any of the
Leela Sinha:streamlining tools. So it's not really our market. But most
Leela Sinha:importantly, there're really hefty subscription fees. So
Leela Sinha:that's something, you know, we've just done a lot of deep
Leela Sinha:listening, hundreds of hours of deep listening, and while I
Leela Sinha:don't think anything we're doing is a surprise. I think it's kind
Leela Sinha:of like putting wheels on luggage. All you had to do is
Leela Sinha:listen to the audience and and they would have told you exactly
Leela Sinha:how to build what we've built. It's not a secret. Its actually
Leela Sinha:it exists in all of the minds of all the venues and musicians
Leela Sinha:that we talk to. We just put it all together.
Leela Sinha:You know, sometimes I think that that is the genius
Leela Sinha:of a software company is to put it all together. Because so
Leela Sinha:often somebody is sitting at their computer and going, why
Leela Sinha:doesn't this program that everybody use, do this thing
Leela Sinha:that everybody needs?
Holly Hargerman:Exactly.
Leela Sinha:Like, the number of times I've gone into a Google
Leela Sinha:tool, it's not like Google is underfunded, the number of times
Leela Sinha:I've gone into a Google tool and been like, I need to do X, it
Leela Sinha:must be able to do X, and searched their help forums. And
Leela Sinha:it's been 10 years of people asking for them to please make
Leela Sinha:it do X. And they just haven't chosen to make it a priority.
Holly Hargerman:Yes, yeah. Leela Sinha: And that's the only
Holly Hargerman:it's not like they can't afford the programmers. Right? We're
Holly Hargerman:not talking about a little mom and pop shop we're not talking
Holly Hargerman:about, although I will say that I've just discovered getdex.com
Holly Hargerman:and I am enthralled with Dex, because it's a Rolodex,
Holly Hargerman:what's it called?
Leela Sinha:it's called getdex.com. The name of the tool
Leela Sinha:is Dex, but their URL is getdex, and I have just discovered them
Leela Sinha:through a friend, she knew the founder. And so she was like,
Leela Sinha:you know, this is a new company, but they're doing something
Leela Sinha:that's very basic, and that nobody else is doing. You know,
Leela Sinha:it's one thing if you need a CRM, where you need this giant,
Leela Sinha:you know, pipeline sales tracking system. But what I
Leela Sinha:needed was a Rolodex that had space for notes and updates, and
Leela Sinha:would connect with my calendar, because my entire business is
Leela Sinha:based on relationships. And so out of nowhere comes this
Leela Sinha:company that's making an online Rolodex.
Holly Hargerman:Perfect. Well, you know, it's funny, like you
Holly Hargerman:said, a lot of this is just organizing, and I've always told
Holly Hargerman:my mom and my friends that, but you know, when I grew up and
Holly Hargerman:retire, I want to be a professional organizer. Like, I
Holly Hargerman:just want to go into people's houses and organize their
Holly Hargerman:closets. And my parents are always like groaning when I come
Holly Hargerman:home, because I'm like, you know what this country needs, it
Holly Hargerman:needs a complete reorganization. And then they can't find
Holly Hargerman:anything, and they're grumbling about how they, they can't find
Holly Hargerman:that 30 year old aspirin bottle. And so, you know, I realized
Holly Hargerman:that what I'm doing now is actually the dream, like, I'm
Holly Hargerman:just organizing information and systems and processes. So it's
Holly Hargerman:really a happy skill fit for me,
Leela Sinha:you know, I am an unrepentant at this point,
Leela Sinha:disorganized person, like, I know where the stuff is that is
Leela Sinha:important, but everything else, it's gonna take me a minute. If
Leela Sinha:it's got a place, if everything had a place, that'd be great.
Leela Sinha:But I'm always acquiring more stuff until I haven't got enough
Leela Sinha:space for it. I just have too many balls in the air. So I'm
Leela Sinha:really grateful for people who are doing what you're doing.
Leela Sinha:Because if I were in the music performance business, I would be
Leela Sinha:so relieved. I would be so relieved. To have, you know, a
Leela Sinha:single tool. Every time somebody comes up with a business tool
Leela Sinha:that's like, okay, we're putting everything in one place, I have
Leela Sinha:to go research it and I have to take a look and see if it makes
Leela Sinha:sense for me. Because the amount-- you know, a lot of
Leela Sinha:people talk about it as the neurodiversity tax. Like, if
Leela Sinha:you're, if you've got ADHD, or if you're autistic, there's
Leela Sinha:certain things that are harder to do. And so you just don't do
Leela Sinha:them. And then you end up paying late fees, you end up you know,
Leela Sinha:getting fined, you end up getting a ticket on your car,
Leela Sinha:because you didn't renew your registration. Why? Eh? It fell
Leela Sinha:off the edge of your plate. And so having anything, especially
Leela Sinha:when you're dealing with contracts, and making sure
Leela Sinha:people get paid-- like I when I'm working with small
Leela Sinha:businesses, especially, I mean, anybody but especially small
Leela Sinha:businesses, I want to make sure that they get paid, I want to
Leela Sinha:make sure they get paid on time. And I want to make sure I'm
Leela Sinha:working with businesses that are going to make the world a better
Leela Sinha:place in some way. And your business model is so interesting
Leela Sinha:to me. Go ahead.
Holly Hargerman:Thank you. Well, you know, you keep talking
Holly Hargerman:about businesses and business tools. And, and I think what's
Holly Hargerman:really interesting is, as I started talking to more and more
Holly Hargerman:musicians, I realized that they are not necessarily using those
Holly Hargerman:words, but that's exactly what they want to be and what they
Holly Hargerman:want to do is they want to advance their career. And as I
Holly Hargerman:started using those words, like we, you know, we want to help
Holly Hargerman:grow your career, we want to help you, you know, take it to
Holly Hargerman:another professional level. We, you know, we believe that you
Holly Hargerman:can't grow as a business person, unless you have this, like a
Holly Hargerman:contract, and you understand the terms of the deal before you
Holly Hargerman:drive 30 minutes and set up your gear. And people started
Holly Hargerman:thanking me and being appreciative of just sort of the
Holly Hargerman:recognition that they are businesses. and that they
Holly Hargerman:deserve proper business tools, not just a gimmicky, flashy,
Holly Hargerman:brightly colored sight. You know, it's funny, because most
Holly Hargerman:of the time is as I start searching for investors, and
Holly Hargerman:we're doing a funding round. So many of them asked me if I
Holly Hargerman:consider myself to be b2b or b2c. And I feel like, what kind
Holly Hargerman:of question is that? Of course, it's b2b. You know, we're not
Holly Hargerman:only connecting two different business parties, and we're a
Holly Hargerman:business and there a business, there's no doubt in my mind,
Holly Hargerman:it's a b2b model. And they're like, Oh, well just kind of
Holly Hargerman:seems like it's b2c. And I heard that so many times from
Holly Hargerman:investors and other people, because the entertainment world
Holly Hargerman:feels, you know, everybody can instantly connect to
Holly Hargerman:entertainment in their life. Whereas like health care it, you
Holly Hargerman:know, that's just, it's very clearly going to be b2b. It's
Holly Hargerman:dry, maybe it doesn't-- maybe you had some negative
Holly Hargerman:experiences with it. But with music, everybody can connect on
Holly Hargerman:a very human consumer level. But the people that we're serving,
Holly Hargerman:they want, they want to grow, and they want to kind of tap
Holly Hargerman:into that business side and make things easier, and they want the
Holly Hargerman:business tools, just like we want business tools in any other
Holly Hargerman:industry.
Leela Sinha:Yes, and I think that that's an interesting place
Leela Sinha:to start digging into the kind of ethical side of what you're
Leela Sinha:doing. Because what's happening as I'm hearing you describe it.
Leela Sinha:And I think that that's reflected in my own experience,
Leela Sinha:is that the musicians, the performers, are themselves often
Leela Sinha:struggling to see themselves not as hobbyists but as businesses,
Leela Sinha:at least at the beginning. And so that's a piece of it, but the
Leela Sinha:bigger piece of it is that they are trying to be seen by the
Leela Sinha:venues as businesses rather than as, as hobbyists, and to get the
Leela Sinha:respect that a business should get.
Holly Hargerman:You know, I actually don't think it's... I
Holly Hargerman:don't think it starts with the venues. I think it starts with
Holly Hargerman:society at large, and how we treat people with a musical
Holly Hargerman:passion and the possibility that it can be a viable career, and a
Holly Hargerman:viable livelihood. And it is in many other parts of the world,
Holly Hargerman:where you have more of a kind of a middle class of professional
Holly Hargerman:musician, whereas in America, it's really like feast or
Holly Hargerman:famine, like you're the Beyonce's of the world, and
Holly Hargerman:you've hit it big, or, you know, you're your weekend warrior, and
Holly Hargerman:you've got your day job. And, and I think that other cultures
Holly Hargerman:around the world, just appreciate the place that music
Holly Hargerman:has, and those people's place as artists and the value that that
Holly Hargerman:brings to our society. And so, you know, if they go to school
Holly Hargerman:to a conservatory, or for music in some way, there's, there's
Holly Hargerman:absolutely no concern or stigma around that. And so, you know,
Holly Hargerman:I, I see that the venues do treat the musicians, as
Holly Hargerman:professionals, however, we have not equipped musicians with the
Holly Hargerman:professional training, to understand that they have the
Holly Hargerman:right to understand the terms of the deal beforehand, that they
Holly Hargerman:have the right to negotiate, that they have the right to ask
Holly Hargerman:for payment in certain ways, you know, like, by Pay Pal, or by
Holly Hargerman:credit card, not by check, not at two in the morning, upfront,
Holly Hargerman:give me a deposit, these are all things that they can do, but we
Holly Hargerman:don't have the proper infrastructure and, and
Holly Hargerman:understanding to funnel musicians into that business
Holly Hargerman:training. And I think it's evidenced by all the technology
Holly Hargerman:as well is that, you know, there's just a bunch of consumer
Holly Hargerman:facing sites, they are not SAAS tools, business tools. And you
Holly Hargerman:know, when I do see the one or two that do provide serious data
Holly Hargerman:or analytics for musicians to grow their career and see how
Holly Hargerman:they're performing on social media and all these other things
Holly Hargerman:and, and kind of aggregate the data, they're always talking
Holly Hargerman:about, you know, how they need to make it fun and, and bright
Holly Hargerman:and beautiful and creative because they're working with
Holly Hargerman:creatives, they need to make it easier. And I think that that's
Holly Hargerman:wonderful, you know, because you do have the left and right brain
Holly Hargerman:merging there. But it's just to say that there aren't a lot of
Holly Hargerman:tools that focus on the business need and serve the musician and
Holly Hargerman:treat them as a business professional. Even though
Holly Hargerman:they're showing up that way and most of them that I am talking
Holly Hargerman:with are treating their career as you would any, you know, any
Holly Hargerman:sales job or any job that that you need to go out there you
Holly Hargerman:need to hustle you need to be organized. You have to have your
Holly Hargerman:spreadsheets you need to make maintain relationships, you need
Holly Hargerman:to do your networking, you need to have your business cards, you
Holly Hargerman:need to have your, your release, you need to do your social media
Holly Hargerman:and your press relations. They're doing all of these
Holly Hargerman:things across a really large span of skills. And they're all
Holly Hargerman:self learning it for the most part.
Leela Sinha:Yeah, I remember the first time-- I've been, I
Leela Sinha:started out in the coaching world. And now I do, of course,
Leela Sinha:more consulting and coaching kind of a mix. But when I
Leela Sinha:started out in 2009, there were no business tools for coaches.
Leela Sinha:None. And I remember the first time somebody said, "Hey, yeah,
Leela Sinha:I'm creating a tool that's going to pull together like the
Leela Sinha:booking and the contract and the calendar". And I was like, "Tell
Leela Sinha:me more."
Holly Hargerman:Right?
Leela Sinha:Because before that, it was. It was me on my
Leela Sinha:phone was Google Calendar. That was the only way you could book
Leela Sinha:me because that was the only tool available. And of course,
Leela Sinha:that's not the case anymore. So what you're doing is, I think,
Leela Sinha:really important. And I think your point about the the art, I
Leela Sinha:would say I would even say it's the arts in general, is well
Leela Sinha:taken, that we in this country, in the United States especially,
Leela Sinha:don't respect the decision to make the arts a career because
Leela Sinha:we don't respect the arts the way we need to.
Holly Hargerman:Yeah, and that's a really kind of big and
Holly Hargerman:multi pronged conversation. And I think part of it, you know, we
Holly Hargerman:as consumers must examine our consumption habits. So for
Holly Hargerman:example, if you pay $10 a month, for all-you-can-eat music,
Holly Hargerman:essentially, you have to then wonder how are you compensating
Holly Hargerman:the people who are feeding you this constant creativity. And
Holly Hargerman:they're, they're probably not getting compensated
Holly Hargerman:appropriately based on the consumption that we're doing.
Holly Hargerman:And so that feeds into as well, that difficulty of elevating the
Holly Hargerman:musician, and the venue as well, to these, these professionals,
Holly Hargerman:that professional level. And, you know, the third part of our
Holly Hargerman:mission is to make any city a Music City. And within that, if
Holly Hargerman:we can percolate music into every corner of America, which
Holly Hargerman:it is already there, I mean, I used to live on an Indian
Holly Hargerman:reservation. And, you know, they might not have had lawyers or
Holly Hargerman:accountants, or even a decent grocery store within 30 minutes.
Holly Hargerman:But they did have really great live music, they had several
Holly Hargerman:stages nearby. They also had a really great medical facility,
Holly Hargerman:fortunately. So you know, I think that we underestimate
Holly Hargerman:where music is, and how it fits into our lives. And now we just
Holly Hargerman:need to add a little bit more structure to, sort of rising
Holly Hargerman:tide floats all boats, spread that music inventory out and
Holly Hargerman:make sure that musicians have access to it, that they can,
Holly Hargerman:they can get into venues wherever they need to go on the
Holly Hargerman:way on the route to wherever they're headed next.
Leela Sinha:So let's talk more about the ethics. Why did you
Leela Sinha:decide that this was important? Like yes, there's a gap in the
Leela Sinha:market. And that's absolutely important. But why-- I know that
Leela Sinha:we talked a little bit when we we talked before the interview
Leela Sinha:about the the equity piece, the diversity piece, can you talk a
Leela Sinha:little bit about why that's so important to you?
Holly Hargerman:Well, you know, it kind of goes back a few steps
Holly Hargerman:and I'm sort of wondering where to start. So I started this with
Holly Hargerman:my husband, we were originally planning to create a rehearsal
Holly Hargerman:studio space with a cafe and a bar, like the one he had grown
Holly Hargerman:up with in France. And we had been working on it for several
Holly Hargerman:years, I was working on the business plan when the whole
Holly Hargerman:world shut down for lockdown. And it was April 2, I remember
Holly Hargerman:because it was my birthday and just turned over to midnight.
Holly Hargerman:And I just kept thinking and thinking, it's not enough, it's
Holly Hargerman:not enough, it just, it feels like it falls flat, it'll be
Holly Hargerman:fine. But by the time we get this thing launched, it'll be
Holly Hargerman:fine. People will be ready to go out again and all that but it
Holly Hargerman:just doesn't seem like it's going to be helping enough
Holly Hargerman:people. And so then I had this lightbulb moment where I
Holly Hargerman:realized, you know, I have been in the position of a big talent
Holly Hargerman:buyer for various events for my previous company, and always
Holly Hargerman:really had to do a lot of legwork to find musicians. And
Holly Hargerman:so the light bulb went off and I realized, hey, there's not
Holly Hargerman:really a good place to find them. So that's kind of that the
Holly Hargerman:founding story now how that relates to the diversity and
Holly Hargerman:equity piece is that I didn't know a lot about the industry
Holly Hargerman:because I'm not a musician, even though I'm married to a
Holly Hargerman:musician. And when I told him that he said, Oh, this is so
Holly Hargerman:needed, you know, musicians just really need help. And he started
Holly Hargerman:telling me all about his friends and the issues that they were
Holly Hargerman:having Whereas I would just came at it from solving, you know,
Holly Hargerman:maybe my own problem of trying to find musicians. So I really
Holly Hargerman:had to do lots of deep listening. And fortunately for
Holly Hargerman:my previous business, that was something that I had trained in.
Holly Hargerman:And so I sat and I listened. And I called one person who I knew
Holly Hargerman:who had a lot of creative people in her life. And she connected
Holly Hargerman:me to some musicians. And then those people, they talked to me
Holly Hargerman:and I listened, and they connected me to other people.
Holly Hargerman:And I, they talked, and I listened. And I just pummeled
Holly Hargerman:them with questions. And one of the things that I kept hearing
Holly Hargerman:over and over again, between April and June-ish was this,
Holly Hargerman:sometimes overt, and sometimes subtle, racism and sexism that
Holly Hargerman:seemed to be pervasive for any of the people I spoke to that
Holly Hargerman:were not white males. And, and that really struck me, it made
Holly Hargerman:me it made me really sad. Because I knew that they just
Holly Hargerman:felt that they weren't really able to fully achieve their
Holly Hargerman:dream through no fault of their own. And then, of course, at
Holly Hargerman:that same time, there was the murder of George Floyd, which
Holly Hargerman:touched me deeply, and changed my life and my understanding of
Holly Hargerman:my place in it and, and how we all fit together. And at that
Holly Hargerman:point, I decided that this had to be a core function, not just
Holly Hargerman:a mission or a nice idea, it had to be embedded in the
Holly Hargerman:functionality and the leadership of the team. And so first, I set
Holly Hargerman:out to make sure that we were providing financial
Holly Hargerman:opportunities to people of color, women, LGBTQ communities,
Holly Hargerman:so that we could start there, because I think that that is one
Holly Hargerman:of the best places,
Leela Sinha:opportunities within your company.
Holly Hargerman:That's right, yeah, to make
Holly Hargerman:this, but that the ideas inside those brains were, were bringing
Holly Hargerman:more diverse perspectives. And so that, you know, others could
Holly Hargerman:see these people in a leadership position and either, you know,
Holly Hargerman:feel inspired by that, or start to create new normals. So that
Holly Hargerman:was part one of it. But part two of it was to ensure that it was
Holly Hargerman:embedded in the functionality. So in my previous studies, in
Holly Hargerman:marketing, for my previous business, you know, I just
Holly Hargerman:consumed social science, social psychology studies, I loved
Holly Hargerman:that. And one of the studies that I read, it's pretty well
Holly Hargerman:known, is that when people, you're trying to get people to
Holly Hargerman:do behavior change for marketing, or anything, could be
Holly Hargerman:for charity, they did three different steps. So first, they
Holly Hargerman:gave out awareness, they went door to door, and they handed
Holly Hargerman:out educational information. The second is that they, you know,
Holly Hargerman:it was for an electrical company, for example, they would
Holly Hargerman:show you your past usage, and give you all the educational
Holly Hargerman:material. And then the third group, they would give them the
Holly Hargerman:educational material, show them their past usage, and then show
Holly Hargerman:their usage compared to their peers in the neighborhood, their
Holly Hargerman:neighbors. And the third group was the one that had a
Holly Hargerman:significantly greater behavior change. And so I took that, and
Holly Hargerman:I said, I bet we could do the same thing with hiring
Holly Hargerman:practices. Because why is nobody doing this now. And I looked at
Holly Hargerman:the murder of George Floyd and I looked at, you know, the exact
Holly Hargerman:same thing that had happened four years previously, you know,
Holly Hargerman:in broad daylight on video camera, with a neck on a knee
Holly Hargerman:from an officer. And I thought, why didn't that one make a huge
Holly Hargerman:splash? There are certainly a lot of, you know,
Holly Hargerman:socio-political things happening that are different now. But it
Holly Hargerman:was almost exactly the same. And it occurred to me that awareness
Holly Hargerman:is just not enough. And I didn't want us to get in the same old
Holly Hargerman:trap of trying to raise awareness, and not change any
Holly Hargerman:behavior. So I felt like, let's try to change technology. So
Holly Hargerman:we're working on the designs, as we speak, I spoke to my designer
Holly Hargerman:about it today, the designs have always been in my head and the
Holly Hargerman:functionality has been in place since day one. And now we're
Holly Hargerman:trying to kind of pull that back in together, which is it will
Holly Hargerman:show venues, who they're hiring, and how much they're paying and
Holly Hargerman:the frequency as well and then show it compared to their peers
Holly Hargerman:based on those historically marginalized communities. So
Holly Hargerman:they could see for example, okay, I'm paying men, about 20%
Holly Hargerman:higher than I'm paying women so that they can have awareness
Holly Hargerman:about their own behavior change. And then they can look at the
Holly Hargerman:industry standard and say, oh, man, you know, the rest of the
Holly Hargerman:industry is actually only like two percentage points difference
Holly Hargerman:like, I'm pretty out of whack here. And then have an
Holly Hargerman:opportunity to change their behavior. So that's sort of
Holly Hargerman:where it came from and how it got implemented.
Leela Sinha:That's so interesting to me because,
Leela Sinha:because what it means is that-- I am a child of the 80s, I grew
Leela Sinha:up in, in really like my elementary, middle school years
Leela Sinha:were entirely in the 1980s. And so I was hammered with the, you
Leela Sinha:know, the DARE program, the, the "just say no to drugs program,"
Leela Sinha:right. And all of that is based on peer pressure. And what
Leela Sinha:you're talking about is really leveraging the subtle social
Leela Sinha:mechanisms behind peer pressure. Because typically, peer pressure
Leela Sinha:doesn't come, you know, with a giant hammer and a big sign and
Leela Sinha:neon. Peer pressure comes when we look around, and everyone
Leela Sinha:around us is doing something different from what we're doing.
Leela Sinha:And of course, that's a really interesting conversation right
Leela Sinha:now with masking. But-- because, you know, in some places like I
Leela Sinha:live in the Bay Area, masking is still very normal. Most of the
Leela Sinha:time, if you go out, you'll see people without masks, you'll see
Leela Sinha:people with masks, you'll see people, if you're walking
Leela Sinha:outside, you'll see people with masks hanging off their wrists.
Leela Sinha:And if they go inside a crowded space, or if they even if they
Leela Sinha:enter a crowded space outdoors, often they'll just pop that mask
Leela Sinha:on their face, nobody makes a big deal out of it. It's just
Leela Sinha:normal. I have friends who live in Idaho, let me tell you, that
Leela Sinha:is not the story. in Idaho. And, and so this is this is a really
Leela Sinha:interesting place for ethics, because, because on the one
Leela Sinha:hand, if they can see that they are dramatically out of line in
Leela Sinha:a direction that they kind of know is ethically untenable,
Leela Sinha:then it will encourage them to do better. Do you have any
Leela Sinha:concerns that if they can see that everybody else is being
Leela Sinha:terrible that they will feel like, oh, I don't have to worry
Leela Sinha:about doing the right thing?
Holly Hargerman:Oh, that is a really good question. I think
Holly Hargerman:that's something that we'll have to give some thought to. I think
Holly Hargerman:that there might be some room for us to impact that, to create
Holly Hargerman:notifications, and to maybe add some alerts in. We do have on
Holly Hargerman:the front side, a little bit of a poll for them. So their
Holly Hargerman:information will be totally private, and it won't be shared
Holly Hargerman:with anybody publicly, we will of course be able to aggregate
Holly Hargerman:that data on the back end. And I think that data is extremely
Holly Hargerman:powerful, because you can't manage it if you can't measure
Holly Hargerman:it. And currently, there is almost no data anywhere about
Holly Hargerman:diversity on the stage. And so we'll at least take that first
Holly Hargerman:step to understand what it looks like. And then we can put it out
Holly Hargerman:in front of people and say, women are getting paid 30% less
Holly Hargerman:or 40% less on the stage, this is unacceptable. And we can
Holly Hargerman:start to create awareness campaigns around that, while
Holly Hargerman:combining that with the data right in front of their eyes
Holly Hargerman:about what their usage is and what others usage is. And then
Holly Hargerman:highlighting the changes. So maybe it's really terrible in
Holly Hargerman:one location. And but we can highlight the pay equity has,
Holly Hargerman:has come $5 closer to equal in the last month. And so we can
Holly Hargerman:highlight that and start to cheerlead people and encourage
Holly Hargerman:them, gamify in a little bit of a way in a sense to, to maybe
Holly Hargerman:add a sense of belonging or competition to it. So for
Holly Hargerman:example, if you reach certain standards, you will receive a
Holly Hargerman:badge on your profile. And so that's kind of the pull of this
Holly Hargerman:as well, is that they'll get that badge on their public
Holly Hargerman:profile so that musicians can see that they are
Holly Hargerman:female-friendly, or LGBTQ-friendly, so that they
Holly Hargerman:know that they're welcome and that they're going to be
Holly Hargerman:comfortable there. And so if that's important to that venue,
Holly Hargerman:then then that might be something that would draw them
Holly Hargerman:in as well.
Leela Sinha:So they can see that they're friendly, and also
Leela Sinha:maybe like a pay equity badge. Is that what you're what you're
Leela Sinha:envisioning?
Holly Hargerman:Exactly.
Leela Sinha:this, this organization consistently, pays
Leela Sinha:equitably, and presumably, hopefully people won't try and
Leela Sinha:end run around that by you know, paying through your system and
Leela Sinha:then a little extra on the side for the people that they want to
Leela Sinha:incentivize.
Holly Hargerman:I don't think they would go through that much
Holly Hargerman:trouble. But, so, we're focusing on two elements. One is the pay
Holly Hargerman:equity and the second is the hiring frequency. So making sure
Holly Hargerman:that they're being brought onto the stage as often as others and
Holly Hargerman:being paid equitably as well.
Leela Sinha:Right? Because if you're not on the stage, you
Leela Sinha:certainly aren't getting paid.
Holly Hargerman:Right? Yeah, it doesn't matter if you're getting
Holly Hargerman:paid the same if you only get on there three times for every
Holly Hargerman:seven times that someone else does.
Leela Sinha:Do you envision yourself facilitating
Leela Sinha:relationship building on either side of this or across even
Leela Sinha:across that, that fairly sizable gap between venue owners and,
Leela Sinha:and performers?
Holly Hargerman:Yes. And here's the reason why. Because as I
Holly Hargerman:said, everything that we have built is simply a reflection of
Holly Hargerman:the listening that I did. And that's what people told us is
Holly Hargerman:that the relationship was the most important thing, it is the
Holly Hargerman:sole reason that they were in the business that they wanted to
Holly Hargerman:help musicians grow. And musicians know that being in
Holly Hargerman:good relationship with the venue, makes their job happy and
Holly Hargerman:enjoyable. So the relationship has to sit at the center. And
Holly Hargerman:the way I've looked at it from the beginning, is that what is
Holly Hargerman:causing poor relationships?And what is causing negative power
Holly Hargerman:dynamics? And those are, those are two different things,
Holly Hargerman:really, the first is for the poor relationships, these are
Holly Hargerman:miscommunications, these are bookings that get double booked,
Holly Hargerman:they're, you know, information that gets lost; someone that
Holly Hargerman:gets dropped off an email thread, or they text them and
Holly Hargerman:then they actually started in an email chain somewhere else, that
Holly Hargerman:information gets lost. Our system prevents that from
Holly Hargerman:happening, or at least reduces the likelihood significantly. So
Holly Hargerman:for example, one of our, one of my favorite musicians on the
Holly Hargerman:site, who's been with us since the very beginning. And he's a
Holly Hargerman:really dear person, and a very good, hot, up-and-coming
Holly Hargerman:musician, really believes in what we're doing. He was telling
Holly Hargerman:me a story about how he was in a hot music town. And he had
Holly Hargerman:played in his hometown a few hours away a few weeks prior,
Holly Hargerman:had a great show, sold it out, and then went back to where he
Holly Hargerman:was living in this hot music town and continued to play gigs,
Holly Hargerman:and got a call one night where the venue said, "Where are you?
Holly Hargerman:we have a line out the door, and you're supposed to go on in 30
Holly Hargerman:minutes." And he said, "I don't know what you're talking about,
Holly Hargerman:I don't have anything on my schedule. I don't have any
Holly Hargerman:recollection of us talking about this. And I'm playing another
Holly Hargerman:show in half an hour." And that relationship was ruined. And it
Holly Hargerman:was a really great venue in his hometown. And he also then let
Holly Hargerman:down fans as well. So that was a real catastrophe. And it was a
Holly Hargerman:simple scheduling error. And that relationship was ruined. So
Holly Hargerman:we have the opportunity to build relationships by reducing those
Holly Hargerman:nagging details and the details that get missed that can that
Holly Hargerman:can kill a relationship. Now on the other side, you've got the
Holly Hargerman:power dynamics. Now the interesting thing about the
Holly Hargerman:power dynamics is that musicians and venues have come together
Holly Hargerman:like never before, throughout the pandemic in order to survive
Holly Hargerman:and seek out funding. So you know, you have the Save Our
Holly Hargerman:Stages Act, you've got NIVA, was formed. And a lot of other
Holly Hargerman:musician aid organizations throughout the pandemic. And so
Holly Hargerman:they've really come together, and they've gone through an
Holly Hargerman:extremely humbling couple of years together. So I think that
Holly Hargerman:that's a really great basis to reconstruct and democratize live
Holly Hargerman:music. And so with that, the best way to equalize those power
Holly Hargerman:dynamics is through transparency, and simplicity.
Holly Hargerman:And so just simply opening up calendars. So both sides can
Holly Hargerman:see, hey, I've got this available, I've got this
Holly Hargerman:available, and then being willing to maybe have that hard
Holly Hargerman:conversation or message, say, hey, you know, yeah, we do have
Holly Hargerman:that date available. But it's not really a great fit for your
Holly Hargerman:band sound right now, or it's not, your band isn't at the
Holly Hargerman:level that we need it to be, or you don't have the draw that we
Holly Hargerman:need. And so to be able to have those conversations, but it
Holly Hargerman:really starts with the transparency first. Also pay
Holly Hargerman:transparency, what am I going to get paid? I'm going to drive out
Holly Hargerman:here with five other people and set up all of this gear, and
Holly Hargerman:we're going to spend three to five hours of our time and
Holly Hargerman:probably get paid less than we want to get paid. But what is it
Holly Hargerman:that we're going to get paid? If they get to the end of the
Holly Hargerman:night, and it's significantly less than what they thought they
Holly Hargerman:were going to get paid, then you have damaged relationships
Holly Hargerman:again, and you have power dynamics at play, because the
Holly Hargerman:venue has total control over that. And the musician, the only
Holly Hargerman:power they really have is to walk away and not come back
Holly Hargerman:again. So those are some of the things we're trying to equalize.
Holly Hargerman:the ways--I'm going back to this this peer pressure thing-- and
Holly Hargerman:the ways in which venues.... having relationships with other
Holly Hargerman:venues that aren't purely competitive, or musicians having
Holly Hargerman:relationships with other musicians that aren't purely
Holly Hargerman:competitive, but instead are collaborative. So that you know,
Holly Hargerman:a musician-- and I know this happens in a lot of industries--
Holly Hargerman:musicians will tell other musicians, "hey, I had a
Holly Hargerman:terrible experience at that venue, I wouldn't work there if
Holly Hargerman:I were you." or or a venue sitting down with another venue
Holly Hargerman:and saying "okay, so we aren't even getting the opportunity to
Holly Hargerman:book Black musicians because they're not coming to this town.
Holly Hargerman:What are we going to do about that? You know, how are we going
Holly Hargerman:to make this a place where we can book, this great act that we
Holly Hargerman:want to book, but the nearest they ever come on their tours is
Holly Hargerman:300 miles.
Holly Hargerman:Yeah, the, and that was, I didn't mention this.
Holly Hargerman:But in my interviews, venues repeatedly told me that
Holly Hargerman:diversity was something they would like to improve on their
Holly Hargerman:stage. And they didn't know how. So the search function where you
Holly Hargerman:can actually prioritize, or sort for that. It's not going to
Holly Hargerman:eliminate other options. But it will allow you to infuse that
Holly Hargerman:into your search results a little bit more, was a direct
Holly Hargerman:response to venue saying that that was important to them, but
Holly Hargerman:they didn't know how to do it, and they didn't have a function
Holly Hargerman:to make it happen.
Leela Sinha:It'll be interesting to see how that
Leela Sinha:works. And I'm thinking about the parallels between that and
Leela Sinha:the startup world where people are forever claiming that the
Leela Sinha:problem is a pipeline problem. We can't, we can't hire more
Leela Sinha:diversely, because there's just nobody qualified. And everybody
Leela Sinha:is looking at them, like, are you kidding me?
Holly Hargerman:Yeah, you know, it is, it is interesting. So for
Holly Hargerman:example, I went through great lengths to try to find people
Holly Hargerman:that were, you know, not just like me, I put on every single
Holly Hargerman:job posting women, people of color, LGBTQ communities.
Holly Hargerman:Applications welcome. And put in our mission, I posted it to
Holly Hargerman:Women Who Code and, and also looking at the results of all of
Holly Hargerman:the qualified applicants. 80% of them were still white males.
Holly Hargerman:So-- or from India--, that there is also a lot of that in the
Holly Hargerman:coding world, but but the majority of them were white
Holly Hargerman:males. So it is an interesting issue. And one we have to
Holly Hargerman:some friends that graduated college with me, who went
Holly Hargerman:directly into tech and have stayed in tech. And they've
Holly Hargerman:actually said that in the last 10 to 15 years representation of
Holly Hargerman:women, specifically in tech, has gone down. That they have fewer
Holly Hargerman:female colleagues than they did when we graduated, which is
Holly Hargerman:fascinating. My college graduation, my 25th reunion just
Holly Hargerman:happened. So that's-- I'm old. But but it is interesting to me
Holly Hargerman:that the amount of trouble getting into and staying in the
Holly Hargerman:industry, it seems to have actually increased since then.
Holly Hargerman:So what I'm curious about is what, what's your favorite thing
Holly Hargerman:about this project? You know, you we've been talking for a
Holly Hargerman:while now. And, and you, you have all this very carefully
Holly Hargerman:thought out stuff, but I'm an intensive. And so I want to hear
Holly Hargerman:what really brings you joy about this.
Holly Hargerman:Oh, boy. There is just so much.
Leela Sinha:And I know you're in the middle of a lot in your
Leela Sinha:life right now. So I get it. But also like, I know that there's a
Leela Sinha:lot about this that lights you up, and it just gets you
Leela Sinha:excited.
Holly Hargerman:Well, my initial response would be the
Holly Hargerman:diversity piece, because I think it's truly unique. And I've
Holly Hargerman:never seen any other place doing something like it. And it seems
Holly Hargerman:like an obvious answer to a very critical problem of the pay gap
Holly Hargerman:in in our nation for for these historically marginalized
Holly Hargerman:communities.
Leela Sinha:Do you think could become a model for other
Leela Sinha:industries?
Holly Hargerman:Oh, absolutely.
Leela Sinha:Like, do you think the tech industry can borrow
Leela Sinha:your technology or your model or your view or something and
Leela Sinha:improve their record?
Holly Hargerman:Yes, absolutely. So in fact, we have
Holly Hargerman:nine different features on our site that are patent-pending
Holly Hargerman:right now. And that's one thing that I will never put guardrails
Holly Hargerman:around. Because as soon as I had the idea, I thought "this needs
Holly Hargerman:to be shared." So I'd like to share it with as many people as
Holly Hargerman:possible even if that means, you know, creating a widget or
Holly Hargerman:actually letting people copy the code. I think that it is
Holly Hargerman:something that is really vital for the fabric of our society to
Holly Hargerman:change, is to have a little bit of that structural help. And
Holly Hargerman:again, that data because once we have the data, we can start to
Holly Hargerman:respond to it a lot more. So I think that the diversity piece
Holly Hargerman:is, is one of the most exciting pieces of this for me, in terms
Holly Hargerman:of the potential it could have to go into other industries and
Holly Hargerman:make change. And it will be so quantifiable and trackable that
Holly Hargerman:we'll really be able to see the impact that it's having. I think
Holly Hargerman:that the second piece would be the tour routing tool. It is
Holly Hargerman:the-- it's like an entire site on its own. And there's nothing
Holly Hargerman:like it that currently exists. So I think that that would be
Holly Hargerman:the the second most exciting piece on this site.
Leela Sinha:If you imagine yourself, you know, this
Leela Sinha:business, five years, 10 years out, and like Oprah-level, like,
Leela Sinha:"you get a car and you get a car" kind of impact on not just
Leela Sinha:the music industry but more more broadly than that, what's the
Leela Sinha:biggest level of impact you can dream of for this business right
Leela Sinha:now?
Holly Hargerman:I think the biggest level of impact, in my
Holly Hargerman:mind that this business could have, is that like Airbnb, or
Holly Hargerman:Uber, that it would completely change how we think about
Holly Hargerman:accessing a certain element in our life. And one that is, in
Holly Hargerman:particular, extremely important to our well being. Which is
Holly Hargerman:music and arts. Getting a taxi, it definitely does improve your
Holly Hargerman:life, if you're trying to get from point A to point B, and,
Holly Hargerman:you know, it's raining out. But music has a way to transform
Holly Hargerman:communities and cultures and, and an experience and a memory.
Holly Hargerman:And so I would love if, if this tool allowed people to say,
Holly Hargerman:"live music is completely accessible to me, I can just go
Holly Hargerman:on the site and find the live music. That's the right fit for
Holly Hargerman:my venue, my event, my corporate event, my wedding, my birthday
Holly Hargerman:party, my kids' party." And so that we now create, and again,
Holly Hargerman:this goes back to the third part of our mission, which is to make
Holly Hargerman:any city a Music City, do we start to percolate music through
Holly Hargerman:our life in a way that it was originally intended to be. I
Holly Hargerman:mean, when when you go to other cultures, live music is a part
Holly Hargerman:of people's everyday life, or at least their weekly life, it's
Holly Hargerman:not necessarily an expensive thing that you have to be, you
Holly Hargerman:know, kind of like a foodie type person for food or like a, I
Holly Hargerman:don't know what the equivalent would be for music, a music-y
Holly Hargerman:kind of person to go out and have those connections. The
Holly Hargerman:original mission statement was to ensure that the soul-fueling,
Holly Hargerman:people-connecting power of live sound can thrive, not just
Holly Hargerman:survive, post-pandemic. And those words, to me, really speak
Holly Hargerman:to what live music is. Because I never considered myself, you
Holly Hargerman:know, like a live music junkie, I don't know the names of all of
Holly Hargerman:the greatest bands, or the indie bands, or the niche bands. And
Holly Hargerman:I've never been one of those people that's like, "Oh, I knew
Holly Hargerman:that band back before they sold out or before they got everybody
Holly Hargerman:loved them." I just love music. And I always felt a little
Holly Hargerman:self-conscious about that, like, I wasn't really cool enough,
Holly Hargerman:because I didn't know the names of bands, I didn't spend my last
Holly Hargerman:dollar going out to live music on the weekends. But when you
Holly Hargerman:interact in other cultures, whether it's a tribe in Africa,
Holly Hargerman:and they're, they're singing in the complete pitch black with
Holly Hargerman:their kids at night under the stars, or they-- or, you're at a
Holly Hargerman:dinner party with four people around a French dinner table,
Holly Hargerman:and somebody breaks out a guitar and they just start playing and
Holly Hargerman:and then everybody's singing and dancing by the end of a four
Holly Hargerman:person dinner. Those things don't happen as often in
Holly Hargerman:America, and I think that they can and I would like that to be
Holly Hargerman:the impact of this, that live music is really accessible. And,
Holly Hargerman:embedded in our culture in a different way. In a way that is
Holly Hargerman:more natural to human beings. You know, I am married to a
Holly Hargerman:musician and we've been married for 10 years. And all of his
Holly Hargerman:friends, he even has a lot of French musician friends where we
Holly Hargerman:live in America. And and we still don't have the same level
Holly Hargerman:of break out your guitar, break out your music, start singing
Holly Hargerman:and dancing, like we do when we are in France and we are not
Holly Hargerman:around professional musicians. And I think that that's a really
Holly Hargerman:interesting dichotomy that I'd like to get to the bottom of. So
Holly Hargerman:that's the impact I would be honored to say came from this
Holly Hargerman:business.
Leela Sinha:I love that vision. I'm reminded of being in India
Leela Sinha:with my father's family, and we were all sitting around it was
Leela Sinha:my father's mother's hundred and... I think it was her
Leela Sinha:hundred and first birthday, right around then... and the
Leela Sinha:whole family was gathered. And it just sort of turned into a
Leela Sinha:talent show? Like everybody had a thing that they did, they got
Leela Sinha:up and danced for a half a song or they danced and someone else
Leela Sinha:played the drums and somebody else sang. And like, that kind
Leela Sinha:of thing is a thing that I don't experience here. Well, I want to
Leela Sinha:say I did when I was embedded in folk music culture,
Leela Sinha:specifically, but not otherwise.
Holly Hargerman:Well, you know, this story that really drove me
Holly Hargerman:at the beginning of this was sort of a connection between a
Holly Hargerman:story from a venue that I was speaking with, who had traveled
Holly Hargerman:internationally, toured in Europe, and I told him that, you
Holly Hargerman:kow, I had gotten stuck in France, and I was married to a
Holly Hargerman:French musician, and all of that throughout the pandemic, and,
Holly Hargerman:and the story that really drove me was I was in Ireland with my
Holly Hargerman:mother, and we were out in Dublin at a pub. And there was a
Holly Hargerman:group of men of all different ages, just a lot more
Holly Hargerman:intergenerational, a guy, must have been 80 years old, and he
Holly Hargerman:just stands up, and he puts his arm in the air, and he starts
Holly Hargerman:singing this Irish ballad. And then all of the young men they
Holly Hargerman:join in. I mean, it was just so chilling, to see the way they
Holly Hargerman:connected young and old, and who knows what the occasion was. But
Holly Hargerman:it was so powerful. And they were not shy or timid about
Holly Hargerman:sharing that with the rest of the bar. And I thought, that is
Holly Hargerman:what I would love for my community. I'd love to be able
Holly Hargerman:to go out my door, and go down to the local bar, and have
Holly Hargerman:people break into song. And I mentioned that to the venue,
Holly Hargerman:that I was speaking with, and he had toured through Europe
Holly Hargerman:extensively. And he said, the culture is completely different
Holly Hargerman:around music there, it is much more like a family, even when
Holly Hargerman:you're professional music going and playing at a professional
Holly Hargerman:venue. He said, they welcome you in, they offer you a sandwich as
Holly Hargerman:soon as you walk in the door. And it's really just intertwined
Holly Hargerman:and interconnected. And I think that we have a lot of space that
Holly Hargerman:we could fill with something like that.
Leela Sinha:It really is all about the relationship.
Leela Sinha:on time, and I want to bring us to a close. But thank you,
Leela Sinha:again, for taking the time, for spending the time to tell us
Leela Sinha:about about who you are and what you're doing and why you're
Leela Sinha:doing it and how you're doing it. Because my hope is that with
Leela Sinha:the interview episodes of this podcast, that we're really able
Leela Sinha:to talk about who has the power, and how to shift the power, so
Leela Sinha:that, so that more people, more people can get their needs met,
Leela Sinha:more people can get what they want, more people can get what
Leela Sinha:they need, and there's more joy and pleasure in the world.
Leela Sinha:That's, that's the bottom line goal of this whole entire
Leela Sinha:enterprise. So if people want to want to find you, want to engage
Leela Sinha:with your work in some way, where can they find you?
Holly Hargerman:So first, I would go to AmptUp.com. And
Holly Hargerman:that's a-m-p-t-u-p dot com. And fill out a profile. Right now
Holly Hargerman:we're focused in the Austin and the three city area around that,
Holly Hargerman:and then Portland and Seattle, but you can join and you can
Holly Hargerman:book a tour into those areas. And then when we come to your
Holly Hargerman:area, then we'll be able to connect with you. And you can be
Holly Hargerman:our VIP launch group for that area. And then second would be
Holly Hargerman:on Instagram, at AmptUp Music on Instagram or Facebook, you can
Holly Hargerman:join the conversation there.
Leela Sinha:Excellent. Do you know where your next couple of
Leela Sinha:launch cities are so people can start to get excited?
Leela Sinha:Austin. And then we're going to be moving out to Dallas,
Leela Sinha:Houston, San Antonio, and then over towards New Orleans. And
Leela Sinha:we're going to head up towards Nashville and up that Eastern
Leela Sinha:Seaboard. And then on the West Coast side from Portland and
Leela Sinha:Seattle, will start heading kind of down and up, we might touch
Leela Sinha:up to Vancouver BC. We already have a musician there who is
Leela Sinha:actually from Austin. So we might take that opportunity to
Leela Sinha:connect with that really cool town, and then travel all the
Leela Sinha:way down the west coast as well.
Leela Sinha:Okay. All right, I guess the Upper Midwest, will
Leela Sinha:just have to wait a little bit longer. But I'm sure you'll get
Leela Sinha:there.
Holly Hargerman:Well, I will say that that we will go where
Holly Hargerman:the people want us to go. So if there is a large group of people
Holly Hargerman:already in one area, then we'll prioritize that area because,
Holly Hargerman:like you said, it's all about relationships. And our community
Holly Hargerman:is the most important thing to us. So if we have people that
Holly Hargerman:are there, ready to champion this and make it a reality, then
Holly Hargerman:we'll go there.
Leela Sinha:So it sounds like if people are excited about you
Leela Sinha:and what you're doing and your project and they are either a
Leela Sinha:musician or a venue, they should go to your website and sign up
Leela Sinha:already so that you can start to see those data points pop up.
Holly Hargerman:You bet and reach out to me as well. Just
Holly Hargerman:let me know. And I'll keep an eye out for it.
Holly Hargerman:really a joy to talk with you. You always have such stimulating
Holly Hargerman:conversation. So I really enjoy where you take the conversation.
Leela Sinha:Thank you so much. Bye.